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Of Religion III
Posted on: Monday, December 27, 2004
As I said last time, the biggest problem, in my view, with the credibility of major missionary religions today are the aspects of promulgation and time/manner of application. To put it in other words, their dependence on space and time makes them invalidates their claim to provenance, sponsorship or protection from or of a timeless "god." If Xianity and Islam stipulate that doing or not doing "x" will entail a particular, rather radical, result, then the very minimum expected should be that that "x" be universally known. But since "x" has NOT been universally promulgated nor is it "easily accessible" (another one of Fuller's criteria), then it cannot be said that each and every one of "god's" "creations" was aware of "x." In other words, it is patently obvious that not ALL people ever to have existed were given the opportunity to be "saved." Indeed, the vast, vast majority of them were not given such a chance. Moreover, prior to about 1600 years ago NO-ONE had been give the Xian way to be "saved", and prior to roughly 1300 years ago, no-one had been given such an Islamic opportunity. So, the question is: what happened to the trillions of people who had lived prior to the fifth century CE (ie. when Xianity, owing to the eccentricity of the contemporary ruler, gained prominence beyond that of a crackpot sect)? Were they condemned to fry in Jehovah's big barbecue for all eternity because they happened to have been born in the "wrong" period of history? Oh, I can just hear Xian apologists insist: "There is an explanation", "'God' gave everyone a chance in 'his' own way", "Do not question 'God's' wisdom" and similar. Sorry, no can do. You see, either the Xian way IS the way to "salvation" or it is not. If people who had never heard of "Jesus" or Xianity never had the chance to be "saved", then that is patently unfair. It is akin to being picked up by men with dark glasses off the street because you were sporting a beard which--per some obscure proclamation known only to a select few persons--was illegal. And furthermore, there are even today literally hundreds of millions of people who are unaware of the tenets or even existence of Xianity. Would you expect that of the "master of the Universe"? I think not.
Alternatively, if ALL people had some kind of opportunity to attain "salvation", then this raises two questions. Firstly, it makes one wonder as to the legitimacy of the XIAN "god", as opposed to the proposal that "all religions lead to the same truth." And secondly it is arguably even more unfair because it places an unequal--and thus iniquitous--burden on different people. Why should Xians or "aspiring" Xians have to spend every waking minute of their lives worrying if they'd done something to upset Jehovah up there and some schmoe in rural China not be aware of the existence of ANY religion and still both of them get to go to "heaven"?? Would that not be rather akin to one person being condemned to a lifetime of penury and misery in a dictatorship while someone else has all the freedom and prosperity they can think of, and all because they are born in a particular jurisdiction? Oh, wait a second, that DOES happen already!! And we do not perceive it as fair, do we? And the "creator of all there is" cannot be unfair, right? And no, sweeping this predicament under the carpet with statements akin to "Do not impugn 'god's' designs/wisdom!" does not cut it. It's a pathetic copout, whichever way one observes it.
Another facet to consider is this: religion proceeding from a perfect god has to be perfect itself. Is any world's religion perfect? I think the past few centuries or millennia have shown the unequivocally negative response. You see, the perfection of a religion cannot be measured by the lipservice multifarious theologians and apologists pay it. How those at whom it is directed and for whom it is intended--ie. the humankind--understand it, absorb it and act it out is FAR more important. If a significant portion of the followers of a movement, using the talents or otherwise with which their putative creator endowed them, end up understanding the dogma they follow as endorsing or even advocating racism, slavery, sexism, infanticide, murder most brutal, genocide, crusades and a host of other transgressions which every right-thinking person finds revolting, then that dogma cannot on any wise be perfect. Moreover, a huge majority of the adherents to the most redoubtable religions in the world today and thruout history did not have easy access to what are/were meant to be the ordinances of their "god." Instead, they had to rely on humans to elucidate to them what their "god's" expectations, rules, will and more were. Naturally, those individuals had their own agenda to pursue which they in most cases intertwined with what they thought the dogma said or what they wanted that dogma to say. The fact that the said tenets were written in books and the fact that a lot of people could not read further conspired to ensure that swaths of nations could not see with their own eyes what the "lord of their lives" had in store for them. In other words, the vast majority of Xians, Muslims and others have not had the chance to see for themselves what exactly they are meant to believe or to do. The vast majority of them have been manipulated by boy-banging priests, adulterous "pastors" and crazed mulahs into hatred, killing, discrimination, blackmail, savagery, theft, poverty and ignorance. Would a perfect god not have foreseen this? Or do we wave this away, yet again, with "Do not demur at 'God's' plans!"?
I did not imagine I would get involved too much with the basics of religion but I will touch on the illogic of the whole notion of "do x, in order (not) to y, as per z." Xianity and Islam both state that certain things have to be done because "man is wicked." Those certain things ranger from "believe 'Jesus' is 'savior'", to "go to church and give alms", to "pray five times a day", to "arson abortion clinics", to "ram jumbo jets into skyscrapers", to "nuke Macah." Else? You'll "burn in hell", "freeze in hell", "turn into a nirvana", etc. Why is that? Because humans are "wicked", "fallen" and "sinful." And why are we like that? This is the part they don't tell you: it is because "god" either "made" us that way or because "god" "made" us with the potential to become that way. Either way, "god" knew we would become that way... - well, surely "he" did; otherwise how could "he" be omniscient? Now, if "god" knew we would end up being so "sinful", then why did "he" "make" us? So "he" could punish us? Or so "he" WOULD punish us? That impresses me as gratuitously sadistic--decidedly NOT a desirable characteristic in a "perfect" "god." How about a complete lack of sense for proportionality? A mother Theresa should receive an equal reward as a serial murderer who "repents"? A person like I gets the same treatment as Hitler(Y"ShU)!?? Gross disproportionality? Not much of a perfect "god" either. But let's move on.
We saw there was a fifty-fifty chance that a generic supernatural entity exists. What is the certainty that such an entity exists AND that its flavor is Xian? Oh, sorry, I have to specify: let's say that entity is of the Roman Catholic variety, as understood in Chicago?
It is impossible to answer that. Mathematically, I conjecture it would be 1:(n-1)+n, where "n" is the number of all past, present and future permutations of religion in the world. So, what, 1 in two million? Not good odds. I sure as hell--pardon the pun--would not want to subject (subjugate?) my life in any way based on such a probability I will end up in "heaven"; oh, but of course, I would still not be guaranteed reward because we've already seen that if we accept such a religion to be true, then we have to accept that its "god" is whimsical. So, we can NOT be absolutely certain that eg. Xianity does not hold the true answers. But just as we can be "pretty" certain that there aren't invisible pink elephants floating about us because of the absurdity and illogic of such a notion, we can be certain to an equal degree and for the same reasons, that "Jehovah" is not watching over us and that having extramarital sex or abortion (neither of which I endorse myself, just for the record) will not piss our "god" off and will not have us end up getting grilled to perfection for all eternity in hell.
If you want to look more closely into the flaws and contradictions of Xianity, Islam or any other missionizing religion, I suggest you consult any of a number of compelling and erudite websites. Look at the inconsistencies, errata, lack of logic, contradictions, historical errors, biological misinterpretations, scientific errors and a host of other things which undermine the "inerrancy" of the Bible. Do the same with any other "holy" book. A little tip though: when examining sites refuting Xianity, Islam, Hinduism, etc, concentrate on those sponsored by agnostic or atheistic sources. If you don't and you go to sites authored by eg. Xian fundamentalists, you'll basically be dealing with the type of argument "my god could beat up your god." No good.
This will do, I think. I WILL conclude next time by stating MY position on religion: what I "am" and how I lead my life. So, l'hitra'ot!
Posted on: Monday, December 27, 2004
ב''ה
As I said last time, the biggest problem, in my view, with the credibility of major missionary religions today are the aspects of promulgation and time/manner of application. To put it in other words, their dependence on space and time makes them invalidates their claim to provenance, sponsorship or protection from or of a timeless "god." If Xianity and Islam stipulate that doing or not doing "x" will entail a particular, rather radical, result, then the very minimum expected should be that that "x" be universally known. But since "x" has NOT been universally promulgated nor is it "easily accessible" (another one of Fuller's criteria), then it cannot be said that each and every one of "god's" "creations" was aware of "x." In other words, it is patently obvious that not ALL people ever to have existed were given the opportunity to be "saved." Indeed, the vast, vast majority of them were not given such a chance. Moreover, prior to about 1600 years ago NO-ONE had been give the Xian way to be "saved", and prior to roughly 1300 years ago, no-one had been given such an Islamic opportunity. So, the question is: what happened to the trillions of people who had lived prior to the fifth century CE (ie. when Xianity, owing to the eccentricity of the contemporary ruler, gained prominence beyond that of a crackpot sect)? Were they condemned to fry in Jehovah's big barbecue for all eternity because they happened to have been born in the "wrong" period of history? Oh, I can just hear Xian apologists insist: "There is an explanation", "'God' gave everyone a chance in 'his' own way", "Do not question 'God's' wisdom" and similar. Sorry, no can do. You see, either the Xian way IS the way to "salvation" or it is not. If people who had never heard of "Jesus" or Xianity never had the chance to be "saved", then that is patently unfair. It is akin to being picked up by men with dark glasses off the street because you were sporting a beard which--per some obscure proclamation known only to a select few persons--was illegal. And furthermore, there are even today literally hundreds of millions of people who are unaware of the tenets or even existence of Xianity. Would you expect that of the "master of the Universe"? I think not.
Alternatively, if ALL people had some kind of opportunity to attain "salvation", then this raises two questions. Firstly, it makes one wonder as to the legitimacy of the XIAN "god", as opposed to the proposal that "all religions lead to the same truth." And secondly it is arguably even more unfair because it places an unequal--and thus iniquitous--burden on different people. Why should Xians or "aspiring" Xians have to spend every waking minute of their lives worrying if they'd done something to upset Jehovah up there and some schmoe in rural China not be aware of the existence of ANY religion and still both of them get to go to "heaven"?? Would that not be rather akin to one person being condemned to a lifetime of penury and misery in a dictatorship while someone else has all the freedom and prosperity they can think of, and all because they are born in a particular jurisdiction? Oh, wait a second, that DOES happen already!! And we do not perceive it as fair, do we? And the "creator of all there is" cannot be unfair, right? And no, sweeping this predicament under the carpet with statements akin to "Do not impugn 'god's' designs/wisdom!" does not cut it. It's a pathetic copout, whichever way one observes it.
Another facet to consider is this: religion proceeding from a perfect god has to be perfect itself. Is any world's religion perfect? I think the past few centuries or millennia have shown the unequivocally negative response. You see, the perfection of a religion cannot be measured by the lipservice multifarious theologians and apologists pay it. How those at whom it is directed and for whom it is intended--ie. the humankind--understand it, absorb it and act it out is FAR more important. If a significant portion of the followers of a movement, using the talents or otherwise with which their putative creator endowed them, end up understanding the dogma they follow as endorsing or even advocating racism, slavery, sexism, infanticide, murder most brutal, genocide, crusades and a host of other transgressions which every right-thinking person finds revolting, then that dogma cannot on any wise be perfect. Moreover, a huge majority of the adherents to the most redoubtable religions in the world today and thruout history did not have easy access to what are/were meant to be the ordinances of their "god." Instead, they had to rely on humans to elucidate to them what their "god's" expectations, rules, will and more were. Naturally, those individuals had their own agenda to pursue which they in most cases intertwined with what they thought the dogma said or what they wanted that dogma to say. The fact that the said tenets were written in books and the fact that a lot of people could not read further conspired to ensure that swaths of nations could not see with their own eyes what the "lord of their lives" had in store for them. In other words, the vast majority of Xians, Muslims and others have not had the chance to see for themselves what exactly they are meant to believe or to do. The vast majority of them have been manipulated by boy-banging priests, adulterous "pastors" and crazed mulahs into hatred, killing, discrimination, blackmail, savagery, theft, poverty and ignorance. Would a perfect god not have foreseen this? Or do we wave this away, yet again, with "Do not demur at 'God's' plans!"?
I did not imagine I would get involved too much with the basics of religion but I will touch on the illogic of the whole notion of "do x, in order (not) to y, as per z." Xianity and Islam both state that certain things have to be done because "man is wicked." Those certain things ranger from "believe 'Jesus' is 'savior'", to "go to church and give alms", to "pray five times a day", to "arson abortion clinics", to "ram jumbo jets into skyscrapers", to "nuke Macah." Else? You'll "burn in hell", "freeze in hell", "turn into a nirvana", etc. Why is that? Because humans are "wicked", "fallen" and "sinful." And why are we like that? This is the part they don't tell you: it is because "god" either "made" us that way or because "god" "made" us with the potential to become that way. Either way, "god" knew we would become that way... - well, surely "he" did; otherwise how could "he" be omniscient? Now, if "god" knew we would end up being so "sinful", then why did "he" "make" us? So "he" could punish us? Or so "he" WOULD punish us? That impresses me as gratuitously sadistic--decidedly NOT a desirable characteristic in a "perfect" "god." How about a complete lack of sense for proportionality? A mother Theresa should receive an equal reward as a serial murderer who "repents"? A person like I gets the same treatment as Hitler(Y"ShU)!?? Gross disproportionality? Not much of a perfect "god" either. But let's move on.
We saw there was a fifty-fifty chance that a generic supernatural entity exists. What is the certainty that such an entity exists AND that its flavor is Xian? Oh, sorry, I have to specify: let's say that entity is of the Roman Catholic variety, as understood in Chicago?
It is impossible to answer that. Mathematically, I conjecture it would be 1:(n-1)+n, where "n" is the number of all past, present and future permutations of religion in the world. So, what, 1 in two million? Not good odds. I sure as hell--pardon the pun--would not want to subject (subjugate?) my life in any way based on such a probability I will end up in "heaven"; oh, but of course, I would still not be guaranteed reward because we've already seen that if we accept such a religion to be true, then we have to accept that its "god" is whimsical. So, we can NOT be absolutely certain that eg. Xianity does not hold the true answers. But just as we can be "pretty" certain that there aren't invisible pink elephants floating about us because of the absurdity and illogic of such a notion, we can be certain to an equal degree and for the same reasons, that "Jehovah" is not watching over us and that having extramarital sex or abortion (neither of which I endorse myself, just for the record) will not piss our "god" off and will not have us end up getting grilled to perfection for all eternity in hell.
If you want to look more closely into the flaws and contradictions of Xianity, Islam or any other missionizing religion, I suggest you consult any of a number of compelling and erudite websites. Look at the inconsistencies, errata, lack of logic, contradictions, historical errors, biological misinterpretations, scientific errors and a host of other things which undermine the "inerrancy" of the Bible. Do the same with any other "holy" book. A little tip though: when examining sites refuting Xianity, Islam, Hinduism, etc, concentrate on those sponsored by agnostic or atheistic sources. If you don't and you go to sites authored by eg. Xian fundamentalists, you'll basically be dealing with the type of argument "my god could beat up your god." No good.
This will do, I think. I WILL conclude next time by stating MY position on religion: what I "am" and how I lead my life. So, l'hitra'ot!
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