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Ante Gotovina and the ICTY
Posted on: Sunday, December 19, 2004
*****
If you would like to link to this page or refer others to it, please the following URL:
HTTP://GOTOVINA.NOTLONG.COM
Thank you.
*****
Če želite dati vez ali napotiti ljudi na to stran, Vas lepo prosim, da objavite tale naslov:
HTTP://GOTOVINA.NOTLONG.COM
Hvala najlepša.
*****
Pozabavimo se pitanjem Gotovine, posebno kako njegov bijeg od zakona utječe na odnose Hrvatske s EU.
Prvo da odklonimo jedne temeljne sumnje, a to je vjerovanje da sam čovjek Gotovina čini problem. Ne; GOTOVINA NIJE PROBLEM. Problem je odnos Hrvata prema Gotovini i prema onom što je on optužen da je načinio. Među Hrvatima se pojavljuju mnogi argumenti na temu zašto bi se Gotovina trebao smatrati "herojem", zašto se ne bi trebao predati i odazvati na sud, čak i zašto je Međunarodni sud za zločine u bivšoj Jugoslaviji (ICTY) blago rečeno manjkav. Izgleda da ljudi u Hrvatskoj još nisu diplomirali do zrelosti koja bi im omogučila da objektivno i kritički gledaju Gotovinu, rat u bivšoj Jugoslaviji i moralnost ratovanja. Da li je takva nacija spremna da uđe u uniju naroda gdje su svi ljudi jednaki? Gdje oni mogu i moraju očekivati postepenu imigraciju ne-Hrvata, ne-Katolika i ne-Kavkazaca? Gdje nacionalizam i nacionalnost uzimaju stražnje sjedalo u korist ekonomskoh boljitka i ljudskih prava? Mislim, da ne. Ali vratimo se na pitanje "heroja" koji se skriva.
Drugi aspekt ovoga je da se mora razumijeti da Gotovina NIJE ratni zloćinac. Ne, on je OPTUŽEN da je načinio ratne zločine. On je OSUMLJIČEN da je načinio dijela koja su kategorizirana od strane cijelog svijeta kao potpuno i bezkompromisno neprihvatljiva. I on za njih mora odgovarati. Na sudu. Koji je uspostavljen u svrhu procesuiranja svih optuženih za ratne zločine u bivšoj Jugoslaviji. Bez ako. Bez ali.
Nakon što sam rekao da je mjesto gdje Gotovina mora odgovarati na optužbe Sud, ipak se moram dotaknuti nekih argumenata koji se tiču njegovog slučaja. Prvo, NEMA NIKADA NIKADA NIKADA NIKAKVOG opravdanja ili izgovora za činjenje ratnih zločina. Masakri, ubistva, silovanja, pljačke, paljenje kuča, izgoni ili ponižavanje ljudi zbog njihove nacionalnosti, religije, etniciteta, itd. su N-E-O-P-R-O-S-T-I-V-I. Nije važno na čijoj strani se boriš. Nije važno gdje se boriš. Za što se boriš. Ili zašto. Tako da to eliminira tzv. argument da, zato jer je Hrvatska vodila odbrambeni rat, trebalo bi ju se tretirati nekako blaže. Ne bi: ubistvo je ubistvo, bez obzira kako je ubici ime. Nije važno što je druga strana načinila. Nije važno što je neka treča strana napravili negdje drugdje bez kazne. Da, "koalicija" je načinila milijon puta gore stvari u Iraqu od onih za što je Gotovina optužen. Ali to njega ne opravdava. Recimo da je neki serijalni ubica ili silovatelj u bijegu; da li to znaši da bi policija trebala ignorirati sva žeparenja, provale, pljačke, prometne prekršaje, "obična" ubistva/silovanja sve dok taj serijalni kriminalac nije uhvačen? Ne bih rekao. Da li je ICTY politički sud? Da, samim svojim postojanjem. Da li to negira činjenicu, da su ratni zločini ogavni i da svi optuženi za njih moraju odgovarati, uključujuči Gotovinu? Ne.
Dva zla nikada ne čine dobro. Biježanje od zakona je neopravdano. Ja ne vidim nikoga u Hrvatskoj da kaže da je u redu da ratni veterani orobljavaju kladionice i mijenjačnice, i da potom bježe od policije. Zašto be onda bilo u redu od Gotovine da to čini? Niti je ovo stari Rim gdje su ratne veterane uzdizali do polubožanstva, bez obzira na neke ili više prijekorne prestupe.
Tu je još jedno pitanje koje moramo uzeti u obzir a to je: RATNI ZLOČINI NEMAJU ZASTARE. Drugim riječima, Gotovina se može skrivati još četiri godina. On može isčekati životni vijek Suda u Den Haagu. Ali njemu ČE se suditi kada ga se uhvati BEZ OBZIRA kada če to biti. Svi znamo za slučajeve teturajučih, krhkih starih "gospodina" koje se čak danas u sutonu njihovih života hapsi i šalje u zatvore zbog zločina koje su načini u Drugom svjetskom ratu prije šestdeset godina. Tako da, ako Gotovina ne načini samoubistvo, on ČE iči na sud, prije ili kasnije.
Sada, da li je EU nepravedna da praktički drži cijelu Hrvatsku talac zato jer "heroj" Gotovina ne može herojski otiči na sud. Napokon, taj čovjek niti nije građanin Hrvatske! Od bi mogao biti baš bilo gdje u svijetu. (Iako prema povjerljivim informacijama Gotovina JE u Hrvatskoj i dobiva pomoč od silovito nacionalističke Katoličke crkve na čijem se posjedu i skriva.) Od Hrvatske se ne može očekivati da locira osobu s francuskim pasošem i s potporom od Legije stranaca na raspolaganju. Čak i čajopijni MI6 koji je provodio opsežne tajne operacije u Hrvatskoj nije mogao pronači Gotovinu. Zato je EU najvjerojatnije nefer. Ali kao što sam rekao, čovjek Gotovina nije tu problem. Problem je pristup ljudi u Hrvatskoj prema toj sagi. Još jedan važan aspekt je da do sada NITKO u Hrvatskoj, na službenoj ili poluslužbenoj razini, nije razjasnio ljudima ove stvari. Desničarski elementi se provodili snažnu propagandu od kada se Gotovina počeo skrivati, a nitko u Vladi se takvoj propagandi nije usprotivio. Niti Premijer, niti inače pozitivan i izvrsten predsjednik Mesič, niti bilo tko drugi nisu pokazali moralno vodstvo u ovom pitanju. Nitko od njih nije formulirao etički argument zašto Gotovina nije heroj i zašto se on mora predati na Sud. Povremeno reči "Gotovina se mora predati" ili "On če dokazati patriotizam tako da se preda" ne dolazi niti blizu kazanja stvari kako sam ih ja kazao u ovom članku.
I TO je razlog zašto svi, od g. Del Ponte, do SAD, do NATO, do UN, do EU zajebavaju Hrvatsku.
I imaju pravo.
* * *
Further to what I wrote about last time (the second part of it, that is), let's look into the Gotovina issue. In particular, how does his being on the run from the law impact on Croatia's relations with the European Union.
First of all, let us disabuse ourselves of one fundamental notion. It is the belief that the man Gotovina himself is what is causing this snag. He is not; GOTOVINA IS NOT THE PROBLEM. The problem is the Croats' attitude toward Gotovina and toward what he is alleged to have done. There is a plethora of arguments being put forward among Croats as to why Gotovina should be viewed as a "hero", why he should not surrender or stand trial at The Hague and even why the ICTY is "flawed" (to quote a milder version). Croatian people seem not so far to have graduated to the maturity which would allow them to look objectively and critically at Gotovina, the war in ex-Yugoslavia or the morality of warfare. Is such a nation ready to enter a union of nations where all people are equal? Where they can by and by expect immigration on a larger scale of non-Croats, non-Catholics and non-Caucasians? Where nationalism and nationality take a back-seat to economic welfare and human rights? I think not. But back to the issue of the "hero" who is currently in hiding.
The second aspect of this that has to be understood is that Gotovina is NOT a war criminal. Rather, he has been INDICTED on charges of committing war crimes. He is ACCUSED of having committed acts, which have been designated as utterly and uncompromisingly unacceptable by the entire world. And he has to answer for these. In the court of law. Which has been established for the purpose of processing those accused of committing war crimes in former Yugoslavia. No ifs. No buts.
Having said that the place for Gotovina to answer all the charges against him is the ICTY, I nevertheless have to address some of the arguments propounded regarding his case. Firstly, there can NEVER EVER EVER be ANY justification or excuse for committing war crimes. Massacres, murders, rapes, robberies, arson, expulsions or humiliation of innocent people because of their nationality, religion, ethnicity, etc. are I-N-E-X-C-U-S-A-B-L-E. It doesn't matter what side you're fighting on. It doesn't matter where you're fighting. What you're fighting for. Or why. So that rather obviates the non-argument that, because Croatia fought a defensive war, it should somehow be treated to a more lenient standard. It should not: murder is murder, whatever the name of the murderer. It doesn't matter what the other side did. It doesn't matter what some other party did with impunity elsewhere. Yes, the "coalition" has done a million times worse things in Iraq than Gotovina is alleged to have perpetrated. But that does not exculpate him. What is there were a serial rapist or murderer at large? Should the cops then not be trying to solve any pickpocketing, burglaries, muggings, traffic offenses, single homicides/rapes until that serial offender were caught? I don't think so. Is the ICTY a political tribunal? Yes it is; by its very existence. Does that negate the fact that war crimes are reprehensible and that all accused of them should answer for them, including Gotovina? No, it does not.
Two wrongs never make a right. Running away from the law is not excusable. I do not see anyone in Croatia saying it's fine for war veterans to rob betting shops and bureaux de change and run away from the police afterward. So why should it be agreeable for Gotovina to do the same? Nor is this Ancient Rome where a war veteran is exalted to a near-divine status, regardless of some, many or more reproachable misdeeds he had done.
There is another issue to be taken into consideration here and it is this: THERE IS NO STATUTE OF LIMITATION IN RESPECT OF WAR CRIMES. In other words, Gotovina can keep being holed up for another four years. He can wait out the lifespan of the ICTY. But he WILL stand trial once he is caught REGARDLESS of when that happens. We all know of cases when even tottering, frail old "gentlemen" are still being arrested and sent to jail in the twilight of their lives for crimes they committed in the Second World War six decades ago. So unless Gotovina does a harakiri or a more contemporary version thereof, he WILL have to stand trial sooner or later.
Now, is the EU unfair for holding the whole of Croatia virtually hostage because "hero" Gotovina cannot be heroic enough to face the music? After all, the guy is not even a Croatian citizen! He could be literally anywhere in the world. (Although according to certain credible sources, Gotovina IS in Croatia, and he is being helped by the virulently nationalist Catholic church on whose premises he is concealing himself.) Croatia can hardly be expected to be able to track down a person with a French passport and the assistance of the Foreign Legion at his disposal. Even the sconehead MI6 which was conducting extensive covert operations in Croatia was unable to pinpoint Gotovina's location. So, it probably is being unfair. But as I said earlier, the man Gotovina is not so much the problem here. It is the Croatian people's attitude to this entire saga. Another important facet is that to date NO-ONE in Croatia, on an official or semi-official level, has enunciated the above things to the citizenry. There has been a huge propaganda drive by the right-wing elements ever since Gotovina went into hiding which has not been countered by those in government. Not the Prime Minister, not even the otherwise extremely positive and commendable President Mesic, not anyone else has shown moral leadership in this matter. None of them have formulated the ethical argument as to why Gotovina is not a hero and why he should surrender and stand trial. Occasionally stating "Gotovina must give himself up" or "He will prove his patriotism by surrendering" does not come close to delineating the arguments as I have done in this post.
And that is why everyone, from Ms Del Ponte, to the USA, to NATO, to the UN, to the EU is screwing at Croatia.
And with every right so.
Posted on: Sunday, December 19, 2004
ב''ה
If you would like to link to this page or refer others to it, please the following URL:
HTTP://GOTOVINA.NOTLONG.COM
Thank you.
*****
Če želite dati vez ali napotiti ljudi na to stran, Vas lepo prosim, da objavite tale naslov:
HTTP://GOTOVINA.NOTLONG.COM
Hvala najlepša.
*****
Pozabavimo se pitanjem Gotovine, posebno kako njegov bijeg od zakona utječe na odnose Hrvatske s EU.
Prvo da odklonimo jedne temeljne sumnje, a to je vjerovanje da sam čovjek Gotovina čini problem. Ne; GOTOVINA NIJE PROBLEM. Problem je odnos Hrvata prema Gotovini i prema onom što je on optužen da je načinio. Među Hrvatima se pojavljuju mnogi argumenti na temu zašto bi se Gotovina trebao smatrati "herojem", zašto se ne bi trebao predati i odazvati na sud, čak i zašto je Međunarodni sud za zločine u bivšoj Jugoslaviji (ICTY) blago rečeno manjkav. Izgleda da ljudi u Hrvatskoj još nisu diplomirali do zrelosti koja bi im omogučila da objektivno i kritički gledaju Gotovinu, rat u bivšoj Jugoslaviji i moralnost ratovanja. Da li je takva nacija spremna da uđe u uniju naroda gdje su svi ljudi jednaki? Gdje oni mogu i moraju očekivati postepenu imigraciju ne-Hrvata, ne-Katolika i ne-Kavkazaca? Gdje nacionalizam i nacionalnost uzimaju stražnje sjedalo u korist ekonomskoh boljitka i ljudskih prava? Mislim, da ne. Ali vratimo se na pitanje "heroja" koji se skriva.
Drugi aspekt ovoga je da se mora razumijeti da Gotovina NIJE ratni zloćinac. Ne, on je OPTUŽEN da je načinio ratne zločine. On je OSUMLJIČEN da je načinio dijela koja su kategorizirana od strane cijelog svijeta kao potpuno i bezkompromisno neprihvatljiva. I on za njih mora odgovarati. Na sudu. Koji je uspostavljen u svrhu procesuiranja svih optuženih za ratne zločine u bivšoj Jugoslaviji. Bez ako. Bez ali.
Nakon što sam rekao da je mjesto gdje Gotovina mora odgovarati na optužbe Sud, ipak se moram dotaknuti nekih argumenata koji se tiču njegovog slučaja. Prvo, NEMA NIKADA NIKADA NIKADA NIKAKVOG opravdanja ili izgovora za činjenje ratnih zločina. Masakri, ubistva, silovanja, pljačke, paljenje kuča, izgoni ili ponižavanje ljudi zbog njihove nacionalnosti, religije, etniciteta, itd. su N-E-O-P-R-O-S-T-I-V-I. Nije važno na čijoj strani se boriš. Nije važno gdje se boriš. Za što se boriš. Ili zašto. Tako da to eliminira tzv. argument da, zato jer je Hrvatska vodila odbrambeni rat, trebalo bi ju se tretirati nekako blaže. Ne bi: ubistvo je ubistvo, bez obzira kako je ubici ime. Nije važno što je druga strana načinila. Nije važno što je neka treča strana napravili negdje drugdje bez kazne. Da, "koalicija" je načinila milijon puta gore stvari u Iraqu od onih za što je Gotovina optužen. Ali to njega ne opravdava. Recimo da je neki serijalni ubica ili silovatelj u bijegu; da li to znaši da bi policija trebala ignorirati sva žeparenja, provale, pljačke, prometne prekršaje, "obična" ubistva/silovanja sve dok taj serijalni kriminalac nije uhvačen? Ne bih rekao. Da li je ICTY politički sud? Da, samim svojim postojanjem. Da li to negira činjenicu, da su ratni zločini ogavni i da svi optuženi za njih moraju odgovarati, uključujuči Gotovinu? Ne.
Dva zla nikada ne čine dobro. Biježanje od zakona je neopravdano. Ja ne vidim nikoga u Hrvatskoj da kaže da je u redu da ratni veterani orobljavaju kladionice i mijenjačnice, i da potom bježe od policije. Zašto be onda bilo u redu od Gotovine da to čini? Niti je ovo stari Rim gdje su ratne veterane uzdizali do polubožanstva, bez obzira na neke ili više prijekorne prestupe.
Tu je još jedno pitanje koje moramo uzeti u obzir a to je: RATNI ZLOČINI NEMAJU ZASTARE. Drugim riječima, Gotovina se može skrivati još četiri godina. On može isčekati životni vijek Suda u Den Haagu. Ali njemu ČE se suditi kada ga se uhvati BEZ OBZIRA kada če to biti. Svi znamo za slučajeve teturajučih, krhkih starih "gospodina" koje se čak danas u sutonu njihovih života hapsi i šalje u zatvore zbog zločina koje su načini u Drugom svjetskom ratu prije šestdeset godina. Tako da, ako Gotovina ne načini samoubistvo, on ČE iči na sud, prije ili kasnije.
Sada, da li je EU nepravedna da praktički drži cijelu Hrvatsku talac zato jer "heroj" Gotovina ne može herojski otiči na sud. Napokon, taj čovjek niti nije građanin Hrvatske! Od bi mogao biti baš bilo gdje u svijetu. (Iako prema povjerljivim informacijama Gotovina JE u Hrvatskoj i dobiva pomoč od silovito nacionalističke Katoličke crkve na čijem se posjedu i skriva.) Od Hrvatske se ne može očekivati da locira osobu s francuskim pasošem i s potporom od Legije stranaca na raspolaganju. Čak i čajopijni MI6 koji je provodio opsežne tajne operacije u Hrvatskoj nije mogao pronači Gotovinu. Zato je EU najvjerojatnije nefer. Ali kao što sam rekao, čovjek Gotovina nije tu problem. Problem je pristup ljudi u Hrvatskoj prema toj sagi. Još jedan važan aspekt je da do sada NITKO u Hrvatskoj, na službenoj ili poluslužbenoj razini, nije razjasnio ljudima ove stvari. Desničarski elementi se provodili snažnu propagandu od kada se Gotovina počeo skrivati, a nitko u Vladi se takvoj propagandi nije usprotivio. Niti Premijer, niti inače pozitivan i izvrsten predsjednik Mesič, niti bilo tko drugi nisu pokazali moralno vodstvo u ovom pitanju. Nitko od njih nije formulirao etički argument zašto Gotovina nije heroj i zašto se on mora predati na Sud. Povremeno reči "Gotovina se mora predati" ili "On če dokazati patriotizam tako da se preda" ne dolazi niti blizu kazanja stvari kako sam ih ja kazao u ovom članku.
I TO je razlog zašto svi, od g. Del Ponte, do SAD, do NATO, do UN, do EU zajebavaju Hrvatsku.
I imaju pravo.
Further to what I wrote about last time (the second part of it, that is), let's look into the Gotovina issue. In particular, how does his being on the run from the law impact on Croatia's relations with the European Union.
First of all, let us disabuse ourselves of one fundamental notion. It is the belief that the man Gotovina himself is what is causing this snag. He is not; GOTOVINA IS NOT THE PROBLEM. The problem is the Croats' attitude toward Gotovina and toward what he is alleged to have done. There is a plethora of arguments being put forward among Croats as to why Gotovina should be viewed as a "hero", why he should not surrender or stand trial at The Hague and even why the ICTY is "flawed" (to quote a milder version). Croatian people seem not so far to have graduated to the maturity which would allow them to look objectively and critically at Gotovina, the war in ex-Yugoslavia or the morality of warfare. Is such a nation ready to enter a union of nations where all people are equal? Where they can by and by expect immigration on a larger scale of non-Croats, non-Catholics and non-Caucasians? Where nationalism and nationality take a back-seat to economic welfare and human rights? I think not. But back to the issue of the "hero" who is currently in hiding.
The second aspect of this that has to be understood is that Gotovina is NOT a war criminal. Rather, he has been INDICTED on charges of committing war crimes. He is ACCUSED of having committed acts, which have been designated as utterly and uncompromisingly unacceptable by the entire world. And he has to answer for these. In the court of law. Which has been established for the purpose of processing those accused of committing war crimes in former Yugoslavia. No ifs. No buts.
Having said that the place for Gotovina to answer all the charges against him is the ICTY, I nevertheless have to address some of the arguments propounded regarding his case. Firstly, there can NEVER EVER EVER be ANY justification or excuse for committing war crimes. Massacres, murders, rapes, robberies, arson, expulsions or humiliation of innocent people because of their nationality, religion, ethnicity, etc. are I-N-E-X-C-U-S-A-B-L-E. It doesn't matter what side you're fighting on. It doesn't matter where you're fighting. What you're fighting for. Or why. So that rather obviates the non-argument that, because Croatia fought a defensive war, it should somehow be treated to a more lenient standard. It should not: murder is murder, whatever the name of the murderer. It doesn't matter what the other side did. It doesn't matter what some other party did with impunity elsewhere. Yes, the "coalition" has done a million times worse things in Iraq than Gotovina is alleged to have perpetrated. But that does not exculpate him. What is there were a serial rapist or murderer at large? Should the cops then not be trying to solve any pickpocketing, burglaries, muggings, traffic offenses, single homicides/rapes until that serial offender were caught? I don't think so. Is the ICTY a political tribunal? Yes it is; by its very existence. Does that negate the fact that war crimes are reprehensible and that all accused of them should answer for them, including Gotovina? No, it does not.
Two wrongs never make a right. Running away from the law is not excusable. I do not see anyone in Croatia saying it's fine for war veterans to rob betting shops and bureaux de change and run away from the police afterward. So why should it be agreeable for Gotovina to do the same? Nor is this Ancient Rome where a war veteran is exalted to a near-divine status, regardless of some, many or more reproachable misdeeds he had done.
There is another issue to be taken into consideration here and it is this: THERE IS NO STATUTE OF LIMITATION IN RESPECT OF WAR CRIMES. In other words, Gotovina can keep being holed up for another four years. He can wait out the lifespan of the ICTY. But he WILL stand trial once he is caught REGARDLESS of when that happens. We all know of cases when even tottering, frail old "gentlemen" are still being arrested and sent to jail in the twilight of their lives for crimes they committed in the Second World War six decades ago. So unless Gotovina does a harakiri or a more contemporary version thereof, he WILL have to stand trial sooner or later.
Now, is the EU unfair for holding the whole of Croatia virtually hostage because "hero" Gotovina cannot be heroic enough to face the music? After all, the guy is not even a Croatian citizen! He could be literally anywhere in the world. (Although according to certain credible sources, Gotovina IS in Croatia, and he is being helped by the virulently nationalist Catholic church on whose premises he is concealing himself.) Croatia can hardly be expected to be able to track down a person with a French passport and the assistance of the Foreign Legion at his disposal. Even the sconehead MI6 which was conducting extensive covert operations in Croatia was unable to pinpoint Gotovina's location. So, it probably is being unfair. But as I said earlier, the man Gotovina is not so much the problem here. It is the Croatian people's attitude to this entire saga. Another important facet is that to date NO-ONE in Croatia, on an official or semi-official level, has enunciated the above things to the citizenry. There has been a huge propaganda drive by the right-wing elements ever since Gotovina went into hiding which has not been countered by those in government. Not the Prime Minister, not even the otherwise extremely positive and commendable President Mesic, not anyone else has shown moral leadership in this matter. None of them have formulated the ethical argument as to why Gotovina is not a hero and why he should surrender and stand trial. Occasionally stating "Gotovina must give himself up" or "He will prove his patriotism by surrendering" does not come close to delineating the arguments as I have done in this post.
And that is why everyone, from Ms Del Ponte, to the USA, to NATO, to the UN, to the EU is screwing at Croatia.
And with every right so.
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